Ep 15: Mastering Introductions & Referrals with Dennis Fox

In this episode of the Best Sellers Podcast, host Doug Dvorak chats with renowned sales trainer and author Dennis Fox. Dennis shares his journey in sales training and the creation of the Client Development Institute. The conversation covers the importance of building strong client relationships, the art of asking for referrals, and the power of truth in sales. Dennis also provides practical tips for leveraging LinkedIn, handling resistance, and making impactful first impressions. If you're looking to elevate your sales game, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiring stories.

00:00 The Importance of Professionalism in Sales
02:35 Meet Dennis Fox: Sales Trainer and Thought Leader
04:34 Dennis Fox's Journey into Sales Training
09:37 The Power of Referrals and Introductions
13:01 Research and Preparation for Successful Sales
17:58 The Role of Storytelling in Sales
21:18 The Power of Referrals in Sales
21:57 Why Referrals Are Crucial in the Digital Age
23:29 Common Mistakes When Asking for Referrals
24:44 Turning Casual Connections into Reliable Referrals
26:07 Nurturing Relationships for Long-Term Referrals
28:06 Frameworks for Initiating Referral Requests
29:03 Leveraging Social Media for Referrals
30:09 Handling Resistance When Asking for Referrals
31:38 Memorable Success Stories in Referral Mastery
34:13 Key Advice for Introductions and Referrals
35:21 Rapid Fire Round: Sales Insights and Advice

Transcript

0:00

If you're really a professional, you should never have to give any kind of a monetary incentive. It's almost like beneath the dignity of that person who loves you and believes in you. So the key would be to do such a good job that you earn the right to not only ask, but to keep coming back. And that brings us to an example, stewardship meetings. We need to meet because we're all human, and so are all the people on our teams. But I believe it's proactive to get involved and ahead of that, and that makes us feel that we're really serving. And when you keep doing that, and they keep saying to you, yeah, there was a situation, you solved it. By the time you decide and you've resolved it to their satisfaction, maybe not this time. The next time it'll be easy for you to then get continued referrals because you've continued to prove that you've earned them. I believe in principles and rule within principles and guidelines. So when we teach a skill, do the skill and we'll ask people to please just jot down what you like about what you see first. Don't worry about whether this doesn't work. I want you to look for the good first. Later we'll come back and you can tell us why it doesn't work for you and we'll help you adjust it. So, one, we want people to find what works. Then we help them craft it so that it fits their personality. So there's a science, a methodology, and an order for some of these things. Dennis, how should sales professionals handle resistance? When I hear resistance, you are listening to the best sellers podcast presented by Doug Dvorak, where the focus is elevating your sales boom. The best sellers podcast, your ultimate destination for winning sales strategies. Good day bestseller podcast community where sales excellence takes center stage. I'm your host, Doug Dvorak, founder and managing principal of the sales coaching Institute. This podcast brings you face to face with the brightest minds shaping the world of sales and sales leadership Today. Each episode features live thought provoking conversations with trailblazers, industry experts, and top performing professionals who are redefining what it means to succeed in sales. Today our guests bring deep expertise that creates the perfect platform for uncovering actionable insights. Proven sales strategies and powerful stories that inspire sales growth and transformation. If you're ready to learn from the best, sharpen your skills and elevate your sales game. You're in the right place. Let's get started. Joining us today is Dennis Fox. Hi, Dennis. How are you today? Hi, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Dennis Fox is a renowned sales trainer, author, and the driving force behind the client development Institute with years of experience, helping organizations worldwide elevate their sales strategies and build meaningful client partnerships. Dennis is a true thought leader in the field. His innovative approach combines timeless principles with cutting edge techniques, empowering sales professionals to achieve exceptional results. In today's episode, we'll dive into Dennis's journey, the insights from his work, writing, and his proven methods for mastering introductions and referrals that can elevate your sales game to the next level. So whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, this conversation is packed with value. Let's get started. Dennis again, welcome to the best sellers podcast. Thank you, Doug. It's pleasure both from a business standpoint, but perhaps even equally more or more having a friendship going back so many years, over 35 years, Dennis. And for our listeners, we don't want to count them anymore. I can't remember over probably close to 35 or 40 years for our, our listeners on the best sellers podcast. I was a sales person with McLeod pest control in Chicago, Illinois. I was on the job with virtually no sales experience, about six months. And our president, Phil McLeod, had met Dennis at a national association, Copasan Pest Control, where he did a lot of great work, hired him. He came into Chicago and worked with me for several days. I was so impressed that I only had a year vacation that year. And then about three months later, I asked Dennis if I could come to Washington, D. C. and learn and mentor from him. And, you know, they say, give a man a fish. You feed them for a day, teach a man to fish, you teach him for a lifetime. And I'm so grateful and appreciative of you, Dennis, for your friendship and the incredible sales skills ideas that took me on a 40 year, very successful sales and sales leadership career. So Dennis, for our listeners, can you share your journey into sales training and what led you to found the Client Development Institute? Yeah, I think that. You know, at this stage of life, you think certain things happen, you have a memory, but sometimes a memory is a fantasy that you believe to be true. So as best as I can recall, what really got me into this is the fact that I grew up in a neighborhood of pretty much middle class people, row houses, and the second son who always got the hand me downs. I wanted the best bicycle. I wanted the best of everything, and my parents would say, this is what we can afford, so you have it. So I decided, what can I do? Well, my brother, who was not by any means a natural salesperson, started for some reason, maybe his own smart too, getting into what's called Fuller Brush. Now, they were long gone, but these people would come knock on your doors and sell brushes, and they would sell dust cleaners and things that you wipe on your aluminum door to make them look good. Anyway. You made money with this, picking up the deposit, stashing the stuff in your house, and then delivering it. He did this, and he also sold Christmas cards. Now, imagine a Jewish kid selling Christmas cards, that's another story, but I did very well. Following in my brother's footsteps, anything he did, I wanted to do, and I wanted to beat him. If he took piano lessons, I did the same thing. Well, I enjoyed the selling. I think he did it as a way of just getting some independence. Me, I kind of enjoyed not getting rejected because I got a lot of rejections. But every five or six, somebody would say yes. And at age 12, I might be winding up making 15 in an hour. That's a lot. That's like 150 today. So long story short, I got involved with that, but then I, uh, didn't think I wanted to be a door to door salesperson selling fuller brush. Went to college, went to university. I started thinking, my father was a salesman selling veterinary. Veterinarians, pharmaceuticals. And one day at age 11, 12, I went to the movie theater and I would always dream of whatever was on the movie. So this time it was a doctor. So I want to be a doctor. Next time it was a world famous lawyer who defended those who were really innocent. But one time I got into the doctor thing because I like to save people. I like to help people. I found out that that was the common denominator. My father got so excited. One day he brings home Grey's Anatomy. and puts it on the library, thinking that I'm going to be able to understand this book. So I tried to, I even went to the local library, started studying this. I got one of those human anatomy things you put together. But I don't have the patience to be a doctor, but I did want to help people. And later in life, to make a long story short, I got involved with a company that sold insurance, when I was in college, to other college seniors. And then I got involved with a company called American Salesmasters, that was selling some of the greatest sales training and motivational movies. In those days it was movies, and then it was videos. Norman Minson Peale, Zig Ziglar, J. Douglas Edwards, the guy that said, whenever you ask a closing question, shut up. The first man or person that talks loses. So I did very well. I was one of the top salesmen, salesmen in the world selling these things. And I started to speak at sales meetings as a young guy in front of a guy that might be a multi millionaire business. And I'm 22 years old. And I'm the guest speaker at the meeting saying, would you look at this movie? And hopefully my training. Meaning it's going to get you want to buy a whole year's worth of these films. I became very successful and I realized it isn't just a movie that makes people change, but it was a nice inspirational moment and something was in me that said I'd like to do more of this than just be a motivation speaker. I want to do something that can get sustainable change in people and that led me to to decide to create a program. But I was very upset. Something in me did not like the words that people used. Pitch. Overcome objections. Uh, prospect as if it's gold. Qualify if they're an, as if they're an object. Don't forget, you gotta close the deal. Something about those words didn't gel with me. I think, to please my father, who wanted me to become something that he wasn't. He didn't see selling as a noble profession. He had what we call today role rejection. The secret shame of salespeople still exists in a lot of salespeople who will call themselves anything else but a salesperson. I'm a regional consultant. I'm a trusted advisor. I sell. So I invented a vocabulary. I don't think I knew it at the time to change the selling terms to be comfortable not only to maybe someone like my father or the public, but to salespeople. To say, hey, I'm doing something noble when I create clients and not dig up customers. So these seven C's became a program that you went through and many others did. I went through in the mid 80s, an incredible program. And to this day, people are still asking for it. And we've changed a couple words because words do have different meanings. So that really got me into all of it. I know you're going to segue to the subject for today, but that's a long winded answer and I hope I do better on the next questions. No, great. Thank you, Dennis. And you're known as the master of mastering introduction and mastering referrals in selling. What inspired your focus on mastering introductions and referrals in selling? Actually, it comes from the fact that after creating a complete sales training program from A to Z, creation all the way to continuing the relationship, I found that there were a lot of companies who, even though they needed help, would oftentimes give me the, not objection, the concern like, well, you know, we just spent a lot of money with the training program, but I'll tell you what we do need. Do you have something on how to get in the door? How to really get past the gatekeepers and how to get in and be credible and not sound silly. And I would also get the other side of it, which was, do you have anything to help our people really leverage the relationship they have with their current clients to get more referrals and introductions? So what I did, is when they gave me a hard time about looking at the whole training program, I would do what I call bookends. Bookends are the beginning, which is getting in. A lot of people still have trouble. What's the good of a good training program if you still don't have someone to talk to, right? Right. So, uh, whether it's a Zoom call or in person, you got to get in. The other side of it, which has become still to this day an unused skill, is how to be able to be comfortable and good at asking and generating. Solid, referred, leads, and or introductions. The sales role has changed. The ubiquitous nature of technology, AI, work from home, flat organizations, not all executives, if any that I know of, have executive assistants anymore. So that's changed. But what are the key components of great introductions in a sales context? Number one, no matter what the environment is, you have to have a truly good reputation. You've got to deliver what you say you're going to deliver, and that brings not just satisfaction. You know, you can have a client service survey, you get a 95 percent satisfaction, and they're going to go down the street to save one penny, because everything is commoditized. Satisfaction is commoditized. The only way we get this is loyalty. So a loyal client should be get. More people tend to know people like that, and, um, that's the first place to start is the people that already would give you an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10, and we're not doing it enough. Excellent. Can you walk us through your process for introductions in 2025? with flat organizations, not a lot of gatekeepers, some or executive assistants. Walk us through that process that you've, you've invented. What are some ideas that you can share with them to reach or make that introduction if you can't get ahold of them? Any ideas on that sort of the outreach you're talking about is how to get an introduction to make your first call. easier. Exactly. How to make an introduction to make your first call easier. Thank you. Okay. The way to get the introduction is again, to either have a relationship with someone as a client or to have enough respect from an individual that if they say to you, look, I don't know that we have a need for you. And then you could say, if you did your homework, right? Well, I know you're a member of this particular organization. You guys meet pretty frequently. And if you've done your homework, you could say. Are you still pretty well tied in with blank, blank, and blank? Three people you know you want to meet? It's a lot easier if you already know the name, and you know that the person knows the person. Then it, then it doesn't become, Oh, I'm sticking myself out and neck out to give this person a name. I've taken the sting away by doing my research and my insight ahead of time. That's one example. Excellent. You invented the term warm call versus cold call. Warm call in your parlance and your teachings are research and preparation. And I heard that common thread in order to make an impactful first impression, either a referral from a loyal customer, but talk about how you, because I know you're a master of LinkedIn and doing that research and preparation that increases your chances of having a great first impression. You know, I'm going to tell you something. I call it overlooking the obvious. Sometimes things are right in front of us, and we're looking for something more complex. And I'll give you a very simple example of this. When we do research and we do homework, even when we're looking on LinkedIn, Sometimes we don't look at what's in front of us, like, what's behind that guy? What's the picture on his wall? Is it got a picture like you have on your wall of the great masters of the sevens, of the training? Or is it Joe DiMaggio over here? You can't see it real well. But if it's clear that this person has something right behind them They know they have something behind them in their LinkedIn. If it's got an award they won, or if there's a library behind them with a giant book, and you can read the book. I sometimes have, and I still do it because I make calls every day. It's different. I'm not just the guy from the outside town that comes in and teaches. I sell. Sometimes, they don't even know my name. I get through to the person, and he says, Hi, this is Doug. And I say, Doug, we haven't met. My name is Dennis Fox, and I don't know if I'm going to last very long with you on this call, but I've got to ask you a question. I was intrigued when I saw your LinkedIn profile the other day about that book, Blank, Blank, Blank. You know, it's pretty prominent. Is that on purpose or it just happens to be taking space? Now, 90, I don't think I've ever had a person say, Look, I'm busy. Who are you? They laugh. We could be talking for five minutes before I say, Oh, by the way, I guess I forgot to tell you there's a business reason for this call. So one, you've got to be able to use your creativity, your sense of humor. You notice I'm being authentic. I'm being honest. I'm just saying. The truth and that's part of what an upcoming book that's going to be coming out shortly. It's all based not on trust based selling You can get trust even if you're a con man, but if you're telling the truth, you're going to build trust So it's based on a whole new thing that we're doing as an extension of seven c's called truth based selling And in a post truth world, I think it's pretty relevant Yeah. Dennis, how can sales professionals, if you could unpack your comments on research and preparation or looking for the obvious, how can sales professionals make a lasting first impression even more so during initial client meetings? Any additional thoughts you'd like to unpack for us? Well, okay, so let me give you an example. When we teach people to research, Sometimes we go into an organization and we say, do you have an assistant that you delegate some of the research to as well? And sometimes when they're really at the top of the profession, they don't do it all themselves. They even delegate, or they have a team. And I say, let's bring your assistant and the salesperson. And we then tell them, we're going to have a little contest today in the room with a group of people. And I'm going to send you out in a minute, and I'm going to give you an assignment to find five new blank, blank, blank, blank with this type industry. And you've got to come back. And show us how you took these same companies that we give to everybody. You've got ten minutes to figure out whether it's LinkedIn, social media, some other way that you research beyond the website. That seminar is called Websites and Beyond, because many people don't realize Boolean logic. So, for example, if I want to know more about Doug I don't just look up Doug Dvorak and the Sales Coaching Institute. I might say, Doug Dvorak plus speaking engagement 2024. Doug Dvorak plus awards 2024. And I'll bet you got some awards last year. I know you've done millions of speaking engagements. And all of a sudden, or conference, or, and I, if I say it's an industry, a financial industry, pest control industry, lo and behold, and maybe it comes up. Two years ago, and there's a picture of Doug, and not only is there a picture of Doug, there's a quote by Doug, and I see that he's with three other people, two of which are people I'd like to meet that I didn't know Doug knew. So, what did you just learn that I learned in my research that had nothing to do with the website? You could probably answer that one. Sure, using, you know, plus and different word phrases, key words, beyond the obvious, to your earlier point. Totally. And then what happens, and this is very important for anyone that's listening to this or watching this, be very careful that when someone says something meaningful, don't paraphrase it. Put quotes around and be sure. You say it exactly the way they say it, so I could say, Hey Doug, I was amazed that you, at the convention last year, when you were the keynote speaker, I would love to find out what people said when you said, quote, I'm really disturbed about your industry. Whoa! Was that a joke or were you trying to get their attention? So now you've complimented the individual, you've done your homework, and the person knows that you're respecting not only what they said spiritually, but Literally. That gets you a deeper relationship before you even know it. Dennis, what role does storytelling play in crafting impactful introductions? Well, um, for example, when I told you about my father, that's a story, but it isn't a made up story. Sometimes we have Um, made up stories, or we have an anecdote or an allegory. I think storytelling is critical, uh, one, when it has to do with also doing two things at the same time. One, making a point, but two, revealing something about the person who's telling the story. That brings the audience closer. They start saying, Hey, wow, his father was in this and he wanted to please his father as well. So part of that is to get a hook in with the, with the audience. Another time is that we know that in any audience that you're dealing with, you have some people who think literally, sequentially, analytically, one, two, three, four, like Barack Obama. Uh, I want to say one, two, three, four. So, you know, it's very logical and sequential. There's other people who are like all over the place. Dennis Fox is one of them. I can't help it. I'm talking, I'm moving my hands. So if I'm working with an audience that I haven't met before, I know that I have to mix my illustrations and the storytelling gets to that metaphorical right brain part of the room and then I have to be sure that I don't just tell the story or if it's engineers, I tell the story in a sequence. So storytelling has a lot of purposes but it really hooks in. The other thing that's important is if I start this sentence right now and say, You know, once upon a time, what happens right there, Doug, in your brain when I say once upon a time, I think back to a story as a child, my mother. I'm not right. I'm now touching the inner Doug. Now, in public speaking today, we don't have to say once upon a time. We can say, you know, it's, uh yeah. It was 1968. It was a beautiful day and here I am and then I bring it into the present tense and I'm bringing you right in and you know the robes are you know flying and we're at the graduation ceremony and all of a sudden my son is getting his certificate and tears are coming to my eye and you know he's looking at me and he says thanks dad. I mean all of a sudden we've got Emotions going on and you get a picture. People do not buy the features. They buy a picture of the end result of what they want. Excellent. Dennis, as we close out the Mastering Introductions, anything else you'd like to leave the audience with relative to Mastering Introductions? I think one piece, and I get this all the time with people, I always ask them when we start this, and also with the Telephone Program, I have a little fun thing called the Referral Excuse Pad. And the referral excuse pad says, you know, the, these are some of the excuses that I have had when I know I could have really legitimately asked for an introduction referral. And I didn't. And then on the bottom of the card it says, please note, we're not going to, uh, you can't reorder this pad. You've got like 10 of these. You can have 10 days of this baloney. So it's kind of a fun thing. But on there are things like, well, it wasn't the right time. Another one would be, gee, if I did my job well. They should have given me the referral. Uh, I don't want to be too pushy. I don't want to look needy. So all these things are there. And then I ask people, you know, just for the heck of it, think of, uh, your favorite excuse. And if you can't find one and you're, just make up one then. But 90 percent of the time, one of those things, or a combination of them, is getting in the way. So there's a will. And there's a skill, the will is the emotional pieces that get in the way. The skill means you've gotta have the reflex. Just like when you're asking me these questions, hopefully my answers don't have a lot of stutters and a lot of, uh, well, uh, I didn't memorize 'em, but I've been doing it for a long time. Excellent, excellent. And I know when I first met you and went through the selling the Seven Cs program, I was not asking for referrals and I was on. Zoom call yesterday with a client, and we were working on referrals, and we quantified that number of 2 million in net new sales last year. About 3. 5 percent of that 2 million was due to asking for referrals. So as we talk about, you know, your expertise in referrals, referral selling, and building referral networks, why do referrals remain one of the most powerful tools in sales, even in today's digital age? Because it really goes back to the fact that when you get a referral, it's usually from a person who you've made money or you've had a great relationship with and they're going to introduce you to people like them. If you have people that don't bring you profit and you sell them, they'll probably know other people who aren't going to be profitable or tough. So that's the first thing. And it also makes them feel good. Many, many people want to feel good about the decisions they make. So they want to volunteer this sometime. But this brings the issue of many salespeople say, That's right! If I do a good job, they should be volunteering it. And it, it, and I tell them that I wrote a manual called the Client Training Manual. And in it, on page 123 of it, it says, You know, if the salesperson doesn't ask you for a referral, it's your job as a client, would you please pass this test? Come on! They don't think every day of their life about what they can do for Dennis Fox, even though they may have had the greatest ROI on my sales training. However, when I call them, and I ask them, and we can talk about how the ways we ask them, it's amazing how they go, Oh yeah, I was wondering when you were gonna ask. And not only will they give you one, oftentimes they'll give you multiple ones, and then when you even say, Hey, would you like me to get back with you and let you know how it works out? They'll say, no, no, you're, no, I'm not interested. They'll say, yeah, I want to know because they want to celebrate and brag about the relationship with you. Reinforces their buying decision, more will come from it, and it just goes on like that. Excellent. Dennis, what common mistakes do salespeople make when asking for referrals, if they are even asking for them? Here's when I talk to them, they say, Oh no, I ask, I get, my business is a lot of referral. I say, can you just tell me what the question is that you might think is the leading question into that? And they'll say, well, if you know anybody that could use my services, um, here's my cards. You know, this is one. As if the card is going to Produce this mana from heaven another one is when they use words, and I say use i'm going to use that that Absolutely create an obstacle like could you give me some names? Give me names now. Have you heard people say this doug? I have. Yeah. Or they'll say, do you mind? Do you mind if? Why do you ask a person, do you mind? As if it's an obstacle. You don't use names. You don't say, uh, I need your help. Can you give me names? And then ask them, uh, do you know anyone? Because that's a yes, no question. You should have done your homework. You should be getting into a, who do you know? And the softness of your voice and the category that you give them to choose from triggers in their mind. Ah, I just thought of somebody. That's why they don't do it, because you give them the whole world to choose from, and they really can't think of it. Not because they're uncomfortable. Interesting. Dennis, how can someone turn a casual connection into a reliable referral source? We're talking with someone, and uh, let's say they're in an industry, uh, give me an industry, I don't care, just name one of them. Uh, plumbing. They're in plumbing. Okay, so either, either they're in wholesale plumbing, they're a plumber, or they're in the supply chain. That involves plumbing. So when I know that, I know that up and down and in and out, there are probably connections that they're not thinking that I'd be interested, but it may be that I want to own the whole plumbing, a sector from top to bottom, going back to pest control, you know, as well as I do when Something came into a kitchen and it was delivered on a truck. How dumb it is for the pest control salesperson not to say, we're going to help you clean out this kitchen so that you don't get more infestations, because there's a lot of stuff coming in that kitchen. How come you're not saying to the person, you want to really have insurance in your dollars? Introduce me to the food vendors who are bringing those pests on their trucks. Then you say, by the way, you're going to save money. Would you introduce me to that person so that they will meet with me because they may be causing the problem and not because of something inside this beautiful restaurant. So, a casual conversation could be from a client or a casual conversation can be from someone in the industry that either knows somebody else that's obvious that relates. It's just so easy to trigger categories. Does that answer it at all? It does. Dennis, what are the best practices for nurturing relationships to keep referrals coming over the long term? You know, some organizations have, give a referral, you get a discount, you get a Amazon gift card. I would say that if you're really a professional and you've been trained professionally, you should never have to give any kind of a monetary incentive. It's almost like beneath the dignity of that person who loves you and believes in you to think that you have to give them 20 percent of it. Now, I'm not saying that some people don't ask you for that, but when you've done your job right, I don't remember a time that I ever gave anybody a financial incentive. I mean, it's just not that I wouldn't if necessary, but we jumped to that thinking that's the way. You know these referral programs. Did they really work? I'm fine. Did they really work when they offered an extra 50 or 100? Rarely. So the key would be to do such a good job that you earn the right to not only ask but to keep coming back. And that brings us to An example, stewardship meetings, I call it like the 30s, 60s, 90s, symbolically. It's critical that we tell people from the very beginning, after you get your new car, after you start your computer program, after we work with your financial situation with your family for estate planning, uh, it doesn't end there. You know, every three or four months, I'd like to, on purpose, sit down with you, and I call it the good, bad, and ugly. There's gonna be some things that hopefully we do well, and maybe exceed your expectations. There may be some things that we're kind of on the edge. There may be some stuff that you're thinking, I'm glad you're here, because I'm worried about this. We need to meet, because we're all human, and so are all the people in our teams. But I believe it's proactive to get involved and ahead of that. And that makes us feel that we're really serving you. When you keep doing that, and they keep saying to you, yeah, there was a situation, you solve it. By the time you decide and you've resolved it to their satisfaction, maybe not this time, the next time it'll be easy for you to then continue referrals because you've continued to prove that you've earned it. Does that help? Dennis, can you share a favorite framework or script for initiating a referral request? Well, if I had to choose between those two words, I'd use framework because scripting to me sounds, planning is important, so therefore guidelines are essential. I believe in principles and rules within principles and guidelines, so when we teach a skill, I will always, or any of our instructors that we've trained and certified to do it, will do the Skill. And we'll ask people to please just jot down what you like about what you see first. Don't worry about whether this doesn't fit you. I want you to look for the good first. Later we'll come back and you can tell us why it doesn't work for you and we'll help you adjust it. So, one, we want people to find what works. Then we help them craft it so that it fits their personality. So there's a science. a methodology and an order for some of these things, but there's an art to selling and the art has to be reflective of each individual's unique way of talking, moving, shaking. Excellent. Dennis, you're a master at LinkedIn. Can you share with our audience, how can social media platforms, LinkedIn or any others that you use be leveraged to enhance introductions and referrals? You know, I appreciate the compliment. I am still like amateur at LinkedIn. I think this is a fascinating tool. It's getting deeper and deeper. Now you've got the AI pieces. You've got, the only thing that I complain about, and I don't complain totally, is that every time I think of all the tools I want from it, I'm going to have to buy another service to take it to that level so that it can do some homework for me. Sometimes I'll get a team edition, even though I don't have a team of a lot of people because the team additional enables me to get insights automatically and segment some of the markets. So maybe the question, as I see it, is regardless of the money, unless it's completely out of your budget. How do you save time and accelerate the buyer's journey match to the sales process through something like LinkedIn? And I think you got to really study it because I'm just in the, if I'm getting better at it, but, um, it's one of the best tools I'm still a student, so I'm looking forward to, uh, to getting better at, but I use it all the time. Dennis, how should sales professionals handle resistance or reluctance when asking for referrals? When I hear resistance. Or and or reluctance. The thing that comes to me, Doug, first is who's the client or the salesperson? This, this is an issue that you see all the time, especially when you're talking about asking for business and there's price and there's the, you know, Oh, God, we're asking too much and we're trying to sell our boss on decreasing prices and because we're not sold on it. And yet clients who buy never complain later. Oh, you screwed me. They buy because you did a good enough job. So there's a resistance that the client can have. Look, part of the job of a client is to always say, Oh, you're too expensive. Or this is going, that's just a test. It's fun sometimes just to see what you're made of. So you gotta. But think carefully, whose resistance is it and how much do I believe in what I'm doing? Then you can take that, extend it to the part of the sales process called asking for referrals and introductions to say, um, what's the problem? And usually it's a willingness issue and a skill issue. The willingness issue is some emotional reluctance based on someone thinking they're being intrusive or thinking that it's the client's job or, and then the skill part is they just don't have a good way of doing it that's smooth and it's not transactional and it can fit as you see. The tone of their voice and the client as well as the excitement that they have about their product. They've got to fit it. It's not what you say, it's not asking for the referrals, but how you ask. What's the most memorable success story you've seen from someone mastering referrals? That would be me because I was a student of Dennis and he was kind enough to mentor me. And when I got turned on to the power of referrals back in Naperville, Illinois in 1988, I was calling on a Keebler. Cookie Factory. I won the business, I asked for a referral, they referred me to American National Can, Christy Hansen, in Burlingame, California. I flew out, I got an introduction, I flew out, and that referral made my sales career. I made the most money I ever did. I was Copasand Services. Sales professional of the year, two years in a row. It was a huge, huge client. And, and that was a direct result. That was my most memorable success story due to you, Dennis. So let me ask you this. What's the most memorable success story you've seen outside of me from someone mastering referrals and following your process? Before I get to it, I want to know where's my commission. It's called Ferguson. Ferguson. Um, you know, in terms of the most memorable, you know, I haven't been stuck in this call because, um, things are just right there when you're asking it, so I probably have to think about that, but I can say this to you, that what's most memorable to me is to see what's happened. to so many people who just never did it before. And I'll give you one example. A guy named Joe Donnelly, who was one of the top salespeople, now that I think about it, a national, internationally known, fact, still to this day, the largest privately held insurance brokerage firm in the world, property and casualty, all that kind of stuff, locked in. And Joe, I'm sure wouldn't, uh, feel upset because he's written me testimonial letters, he's been, but he said to me, you know what? You've been coaching a lot of people and people who are making, by the way, over seven figures of income. He was included. I didn't even know why he wanted me to coach him. And I said that to him. He says, well, you know what? I gotta tell you there's something that I've never been comfortable doing and if you can help me with that I'd like to hire you and it was that he never asked anybody and never felt comfortable asking for referrals The letter that I got from him and the testimonials I got from him is probably the most memorable because here's a guy That I'm sure got him and maybe he was so humble about the fact that he may not have need my coaching to continue to be Tough, but he truly was uncomfortable with it and he overcame that even in a very successful business where he got plenty of good leads So I to me that was an honor as well as a great example that everyone can improve Dennis if you had to distill your philosophy on Introductions and referrals into one key piece of advice for each. What would it be? The one key piece of advice is that you need to build into your mindset that you deserve to be able to get a multiplying factor from the investment you make in that client and that client's business. And that means that I know that in a sense they owe me. these referrals and introductions, but without a push and without aggressive, just because I know that I'm going to deserve it and earn it. And I know some people who've actually said that, I probably have in my past, planted the seed by saying, uh, I want you to know that I know you haven't become a client yet, but I want you to know that someday I'm going to be so excited about the value we bring you. And you're not going to feel bad when I come to you and I say, Hey, by the way, Who do you know that's progressive like you that I should be meeting? I just want to plant that seed. So I, I actually said that and I still would say it to this day, they'll laugh. They'll usually say, all right, we'll get, let's see if we get there. I've never had anybody say, I'll never give you a referral, no matter how good you do. We're now at the tail end, Dennis, a great, great content. I'm so glad we had you at a guest on the best sellers podcast. Now the rapid fire round. I'll be asking a series of questions, one word response or a short answer. What's the best sales advice you've ever received. Listen. Excellent. One book. Every salesperson should read influence. Excellent. Your go to morning routine to set the tone for a productive sales day. First, wake up. Second, make sure you eat a good breakfast. It's got protein in it. Not too heavy, but gets you get your body ready to go. Do some exercise. I go to the gym. I go to the gym now every single day. I might skip a Sunday. And I, uh, put strength in it, and I put cardio. But at my age, it's in the water. Yeah. A lot nicer on my, my bones, and Good. A common myth about referrals you'd like to debunk. I think I went over some of that before, which is that if you, if I do my job right, they're going to give me a referral, and only the people who are needy and desperate ask, uh, need to ask. It's not true. It's a professional obligation and their responsibility to do it. And I want to make one other point on that, if I can. A lot of companies say, I don't know, I'm hiring people. Again, you can go back to the pest control industry, you can go back to service industries, you can go to the most sophisticated industries, and I say to them, did you ever in your interview, when you hired someone, whether it's a professional or the technical department, say, we want you to know something, that we believe in our service, and if we provided you with an ethical, professional, way to be able to ask your clients for introduction referrals, and we were willing to give that to you and train you to do it, uh, as a part of your job, because it is part of our job here. Would you be willing to do that? Anyone that wants the job is going to say, yes, then you don't get reluctance later. Excellent. It's our job. It's not an option. Mm hmm. The most underrated skill in sales opening. If you weren't a sales trainer and author, what career would you choose? I would be a singer. Anyway, maybe not. Um, I love photography. I love photography. And you're very good. And since I'm colorblind, black and white, mostly. What's one word that describes your sales philosophy? Truth. A client success story that still brings a smile to your face. I would say, Doug, you, I am so, and I say that not for any brownie points, as I sit here now, I think you, and this is not a compliment to myself, but if I gave myself a compliment, it would be for being able to have something to do, catalytically, for launching a career of someone who said that at one time they wanted to be what I am, and not only were you, but you became the best you, you could ever be, I'm learning at your feet, and I feel wonderful about that, that to me is, Heartfelt. Thank you my dear friend. That's very kind. Your favorite way to celebrate closing a big deal. Okay I want to change that word because this is the seven c's I'm asked to this day to come in and do a closing seminar I will refuse at any price to do a closing seminar because the problem is too late then we haven't Opened correctly and your opening is your close and we don't use that word anymore If you put a c in front of that word It's loose. It's opening, and it's building the credibility, the criteria, all the different criteria, and checking them off properly as you come back. Prove it. The end of it, there's very little closing. It's assumptive. You do have to take action, but it rarely is something that all of a sudden makes you an enemy of someone that you've gotten a good relationship with. That's why people are afraid of it. Excellent. Dennis, what resources or courses from the Client Development Institute would you like to recommend to our listeners looking to improve in mastering introductions and referrals? Well, I guess I need to be an example of what I talked about. I can't make a recommendation until someone calls me, and I get a chance to listen. And when I listen, I can find out, do they really have the rudiments? Do they have them down? Are they reflexed? How does a boxer throw a punch faster than thought? You don't see him saying, I think I'll throw a left here. So, to get that reflex, and to this day, I still do not see the way we do it. When we practice, we practice, we drill, rehearse, and we do it over and over and over again. You don't do one, and then Doug does one. You do it, like in basketball or tennis. The instructor, if they're trained by me or myself. Watches you, you do it again, you get the feedback, you take that feedback, go to the next person. That next person's another buyer. You do four buyers as a salesperson. So to me, whatever the course is, you've got to really practice it. You can't just make up Mrs. Jones. You bring real examples of real companies you're working with and you practice it. In our programs, that's what we do. So people will go out and make something out of it. Thank you. You mentioned your new book coming out that piqued my interest. Just unpack that briefly for myself and our listeners. Okay, well this is the first time that I've announced it, I will make a confession about it at the same time. The book is called Real Salespeople Don't Tell Lies. That book was written by me before many of the people who are watching this were born. This is a very important thing and an omission to tell you that I wrote the book originally in 1992 and because of my ADHD nature, even then, to add insult to injury, I paid a well known ghostwriter who's written all the books for dummies and this and that to sit with me for two days, record my whole philosophy, and then just help me edit my words, but in that thing. He did it. Put it all together. I never published the book. And now, your readers will have to read the introduction, because the book will be coming out this year. And in the introduction, I'm going to explain and confess, folks, you don't want to make the mistake I did. Because I had, and thank God I've done a lot about it. Oftentimes, you see in the, in the women's world, the imposter syndrome. It happens not just with women, it happens with anyone who might have not a fear of failure. I succeeded. I had visible evidence, still do, of my success, monetary and otherwise, but I never felt worthy of all of it, so I would do things to sabotage it, including not publish a book that everybody's been asking for for Decades. It's coming out. Excellent. And by the way, I would love to know from your readers and your listeners if they like the title. Dennis, how can our listeners connect with you? Share with us your website, phone number, and email. Website, the new one, is DennisFoxCo, C O dot com. D E N N I S F O X C O dot com. Email would be Dennis, at DennisFoxCo. And the phone number, the business number is 7 0 3 4 3 5 7 3 5 5. Dennis. Thank you very much. It's been a high honor and privilege to have you as a guest on the best sellers podcast. Best sellers community. You can find us at salescoach. us forward slash podcast or on the best sellers podcast on Spotify, Apple and all podcast channels. Good luck. Good selling and carpe diem. If you made it all the way here, thank you for listening to the bestsellers podcast, your ultimate destination for winning sales strategy. We hope you love this episode. Be sure to subscribe to us on YouTube and follow us on your favorite podcast platform to never miss an episode. See you on the next one.